In today's episode I am joined by Hoani Hotene, he's a Wellington based comic and was the 2023 winner of NZ's Raw comedy competition, quite an achievement and I was delighted to have him on the show. Hoani brought with him the Errol Morris documentary Gates of Heaven, made in the 70s about people who own and operate pet cemetaries. I watched the doco the night before and we had a really fun and interesting discussion of about it, as well as Hoani's wider love of documentaries. If you're a cinephile or a docophile (?) this one's the pod for you!
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Hello friends, welcome back to another episode of Roddame this. I am your host Taylor Ruddle, The Ruddler, and today we are going to be embarking on the first step in a kind of shift in the podcast. I think I finally figured out the niche that I want to go for. These are the most interesting podcasts for me to record. I really enjoyed doing them. And they are also the type of podcasts that I enjoy listening to most. So basically what I'm going to be striving for is each one of my guests is going to be somebody from the arts, be it a musician, a comedian, an artist, anything like that. And I'm going to have them talk to me for about 40 minutes on a particular niche interest that they might have, a passion of theirs, if you will. I'm hoping these interviews are going to be interesting to listen to and you will come away from them having learnt something new about a topic that you didn't know you were interested in. So my guest this week is Kwaane Hortene. He is a comedian from up north. He actually won the Raw Comedy Contest in 2022, which is a pretty big achievement. There's a lot of heats. And I guess that's like for any overseas listeners, the raw competition is kind of like our big, you know, new kind of sub three year, I think, standup comedian contest. So, Juan is very, very funny, very, very sweet guy. I enjoyed talking to him a lot. In this episode, we decided to talk about a documentary that he really liked, which was called Gates to Heaven. So without any further ado, I'm trying to make these intros a little bit shorter. I was listening to one the other day and I just realized how much I waffle on these things. So with that, let's welcome to the podcast, Hoani Hortene. Hey, how are you man? I'm doing good. I'm doing good, man. Thanks for having me here. Thank you. Thanks for joining on the podcast. I've been wanting to do something like this with you for a while, and it was kind of good that it worked out like this. Yeah, yeah, it worked out for me too. I'm glad. So today we are going to talk about a documentary that was quite meaningful to you. Would you say that? Or was it you just kind of liked the documentary? I think it's pretty meaningful. I think it's like one of those like, it's a weird one. It's called Gates of Heaven, like I don't know, yeah. But it's just this like, it's this crazy sort of documentary based around these people who wanted to start up like a pet cemetery thing. But it's like, I thank you for watching it by the way, because there is- kind of a slog if you're not into it because it's just interview after interview after interview with all these like random people who just go on and start talking about their lives quite a lot. So you really quite a butter the backstory. It's yeah. The when I heard the title, because I didn't see the poster, you just mentioned the name gate gates of heaven. It sounds almost like a heavy metal band to me like a thrash Kingdom of Heaven, which was a Orlando Bloom movie about like, I think the some kind of battle and maybe like the Wars of Jericho. It was like a biblical kind of thing. And so that was the, that was the impression in my head when I heard the name. And then I started watching it. I don't think it's a great name for it. Yeah. And like you said, I, it's an interesting one because like you say, they do kind of witter on a bit at times, don't they? And But I think it was quite well made because there wasn't any, you didn't see any of the questions being asked, you just saw their responses to it and it had been edited in a way that tells quite a clear story. Yeah, well the guy who made it, he does, he is like actually a pretty good famous documentarian. Like he's gone on and he did, he did this thing called like the thin blue line which ended up being like the, the kind of like the basis. kind of for a lot of, some people call it like the first like true crime documentary. Oh wow. Yeah, yeah. It's funny because you'll watch it and then it's like a very obvious case. And then I think it's parodied in, you know, the Bill Hader and Fred Armisen and yeah, yeah. Awesome, they do a parody of Gates to Heaven. Yeah. Oh, that's brilliant. Yeah. Oh no, they do a parody of Thin Blue Line. Gotcha. But it's made by the same guy. So Thin Blue Line, is that like one crime that they investigate or is it a series of crimes? It's one crime. So Thin Blue Line is like one of those ones where a guy gets arrested and he didn't do it, you know, and then the guy who actually did it, they get him on interview. And it's funny because like part of the reason this movie is good and that movie is good is because people back then did not have any idea about the power of the camera. So they just kind of like, yeah, they just talk, like they just talk and they'll say crazy things. Well, not crazy things, but like, you know, there's like one woman in there and she's just like, you know, my son, he's like, you know, he's not my real son. She goes on for a long time about her son, doesn't she? That was my first impression now that you've pointed that out, is that I don't think I've seen that people today wouldn't just talk for that long about whatever was popping into their head. Because you know, like, it's on hard copy if it's been filmed, but like you say, they didn't have any idea of how long this stuff was gonna be around for, right? The woman in the middle, what was her relation to the cemetery? I couldn't quite figure out why that was in there. She lived across the road from the one where... like you know because they I think a few times have to move around but she lived across the road from one of them and I imagine that they just asked her some question and then she just kind of went on and then just started talking about it because like in my head she's just a woman who is like she doesn't do anything during the day is my impression of this woman and she was just sitting on the front porch. He's sitting on the porch watching the cemetery because she even alludes to a condition which she... says a couple of times like, I'm not faking my condition so presumably she's on the beanie or something maybe, or she would have been retired at that point right? Yeah she's pretty old, yeah not much going on. There was a few characters, I guess we could go through some of the characters to maybe help the listener kind of picture who they were. So the first character, a friend of mine also watched it and said he looked like Humpty Dumpty. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, he's got like a real sincerity to him. This is the very, very first guy you see. He's Mack, I think his name is right. Floyd is his real name, but everyone calls him Mack. And he is trying to, he sort of gets like inspired by the death of his collie. He wants to give them a, like pets, like a, like a dignified kind of place to rest is kind of where he starts off, isn't he? Yeah, and then you kind of play him against like a style of antagonist, you know, so it's kind of like, the thing is like, it tells us really good story, like in a lot of different aspects. So that begins with him who's like, he takes like the death of his pet like incredibly to heart and then it's kind of like counteracted against this guy who runs like a rendering thing, which is like, essentially like a glue company, you know, where they turn horses into glue sort of space. And he's, you know, he's thinking the exact opposite. He's like, you know, he, the, the way he sees an animal after death is like very much, you know, uh, since turning it's money. Yeah. The weird thing is this might get me a little bit of heat, but I kind of liked that guy because I felt like the two, the first guy and the rendering factory guy had a weird kind of respect for each other because. The first guy says a few times, like, they don't waste any of the animal at the rendering plant and he's horrified at what they're doing, but it seems like he kind of acknowledges like, you know, it's, they're not, they're not doing it wastefully, I guess is the angle. And then the rendering plant guy is like, he acknowledges that people are upset when their animals have died. But I think from his point of view, it's more pragmatic, like, well, they still have to go somewhere when they die. and that's kind of where the rendering plays. So I don't know, I didn't find him as hateable as I think a lot of people might. I don't think he's hateable either. He's just like a guy. He's not like a Cruella De Vil character. Yeah, he's not wearing fur coats. No, no, no. And he's like, yeah, you're right. He's just like a worker. He's just like, you know. He's got that whole thing about how they have a deal with the zoo. And then they just like, he's like, yeah, you know, the elephant died. And, you know, we had to just pretend like we didn't have the elephant, you know, because everybody was really upset about it. So it's crazy. It's weird. But you know, I don't know what they do with elephants now. Exactly. That's the thing is like, have you ever seen the Nate Barghatzee standard routine about if your horse dies? Oh yeah, it's like, got a mate who fights him around. You've got to invite four friends around to help you get rid of the horse and like, he does point out, yeah, that like if an elephant or a giraffe passes away, it's like, what do you do with that animal? So yeah, it's, I thought it was cool as well though, how the first cemetery he was talking about, it wasn't just dogs and cats that buried, people were burying like snakes and other exotic pets. there as well. I thought that was quite nice. Yeah, it is a really good movie. I think people should check it out. I think the whole thing of people talking sincerely about these things in a way that like you just don't hear people talk at all anymore. I think it might just be like a, I don't know if it's totally a thing of like the power of the camera, but they do speak like just differently. It gets quite philosophical at points doesn't it? Like there was one piece, I forget which character was talking about, but he was talking about how you can't trust humans like you can trust a dog. He's like a human is your friend to your face. But if you turn around, you don't know what, like if he's still your friend or not. Whereas he's like my little dog, you know, I turn around, he's still back there. He's, you know, trying to love me. He's trying to get food. Like it's just my little dog. And there was another- Yeah, it's that Humpty Dumpty guy. Yeah. That was him, yeah. I can know you, but I don't know you truly. Yeah. That's pretty cool. And then when you, that shows you some close-ups of- the graves because the movie kind of covers two pet cemeteries. The first one with Mac, which doesn't, it falls apart or he gets kicked out of something. I kind of lost what was happening there. He, I think he was like an ideas guy, but he didn't really know, he didn't really know how to make it sort of pay for itself, I think was the kind of plot, is that right? Yeah, and the guys who owned the land were trying to get a lot of money out of it. Oh, that's what it was. Yeah, they were talking about, you know, doing one plot of land and then just putting, you know, as many animals into that one hole as they could. So it was more of like a, they were just trying to make it like a cemetery dump thing rather than a real thing. And then the second, it shows us the second cemetery that seems to be doing quite well. What I find really interesting about this doco as well is it's set in California. it's in the 70s when it was still relatively undeveloped. So they're just living in the middle of like wasteland almost. They're up on a hill with this and like the cemetery grass is really green, really nicely looked after but around it is just this really scraggly like kind of bushland. I don't know what it's not bushland really. It's like a- Like tussock looking stuff. It isn't tussock but like it's not grass. It's not nice. It's not nice land really is it? And then I think even when they show the first cemetery, he talks about how like, Oh geez, what a, what a magnificent plot of land that is. What a, it's such a great view. And it's just like, he's got a view of like a highway. It's like three highways. And like, yeah, he's like, you know, this is so good because like, it is a great place to be, you know, and then it'd be a great place for like a motel or a restaurant or yeah, that's right. Yeah. But, um, when they're showing you the second cemetery. Um, it's showing closeups of all of people's, like the, the headstone, I suppose you'd call it. It's like a, um, a little picture of the animal and then a quote. And there's some quite deep quotes. Like one person said something about, I knew love because I knew you. And then the animal's name. That's the one, that's the one that I was thinking of too. Yeah. I just rewatched it again this morning before that so that I could be, yeah, like super fresh on it, but yeah. Hey, yeah. No people. That's the other thing of it too, is that people are. I don't think it's a surprise that people love their animals, but people were talking about it quite... I don't know. It's really, it's like these old people from the 70s and they're just loving their dogs. They're loving their things. There's a scene where a guy, I guess he works for the funeral home and he's talking to the couple about their dog. And I think they're also talking about how when people are grieving their pets, you have to sort of like, not necessarily walk on eggshells around them, but you have to deal, you have to be very gentle with them. putting it away and there's a really nice scene where he's sort of just like, he's just got this sort of southern old boy charm about him and he's like, I ain't never seen a pup like that before and oh, he looks like, I bet you're just so glad to have him and it was just like a really nice scene. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's got that hair on his face and it's like, yeah. He's like a little sheep dog or something. Yeah, it's a little bit of sheep in him. Yeah, I thought he handled that really well. He was so good. So good. And like that, I feel like, I wonder if that's, it seemed like he switched that on and off quite well. So I don't know whether that's just his personality or if he's just learnt through, you know, working in the trade to kind of handle people quite well about it. To have that funeral talk. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's like a patter of voice. Yeah. But it's, I don't know, he's nailed it. He, yeah, absolutely. The other thing I was going to ask you about it as well is when did you watch this for the first time? I watched it maybe, man, maybe like four years ago. How did you kind of find it? Do you know Roger Ebert? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I just like documentaries. Like I was really into documentaries back then, especially still like them now, but don't watch as many. He just has like a filter on his thing for, you know, on his website, you can filter out like the four star movies, which is the top if you know Roger Ebert. And I just looked up some of the documentaries that they have. Some of them are not like super fun to watch, you know, there's like, what's it called? Like Nanook of the North and you know, it's like, yeah, it's kind of like one of the first documentaries ever made. But there's like a lot of really good stuff. Another good way to find documentaries that are quite good is just to figure out which documentary they are Parading in documentary now watch that documentary and then watch the episode. That's a great way to find them Yeah, Jiro dreams of sushi was the one that I found like that which is which is an amazing doco as well What is that actually about? I've heard the name as a dog looking for sushi or something Jiro, yeah, Jiro dreams of sushi is about a it's like the highest, I don't know what the Michelin star rating is, but it's a super high Michelin star rating sushi restaurant where you go in and you don't like place an order, they just give you the sushi. Oh, makase. Yeah, the whole um chef's choice kind of thing, right? Yeah, you'd love it because uh, because your time in Japan. Well, maybe I mean, I don't know. Well the thing That's one way just to anybody listening if you're planning on going to Japan and you want to get like a super happy um, reaction out of any chef, especially if it's a place where the chef is just behind the counter or something, just say to them, or mark us there, which just means I'll leave it to you. And like, you will see like the biggest smile on their face for a foreigner saying that and kind of trusting them to like prepare you food that they think you'll like, so little, little tourist tidbit for you there. Um, yeah, that's cool. I didn't realize that was actually a human movie for some reason. I had this picture in my head of like, it was an animated movie with a. with a dog character for some reason, so I don't know where that got that from. You're thinking of the Wes Anderson movie? Must be, yeah. I don't know where I got that from. But so that's like, because the whole idea of sushi is like that it's presented really beautifully, right? So I'm guessing it's about the pursuit of perfection and that sort of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that movie is all about like, it just kind of, so it is this super high Michelin star restaurant and the reason it is... is because like all the stuff that they do beforehand. So it kind of shows them picking out the exact piece of meat for these things and the exact vegetables and making sure that in the preparation for everything, it's like super, super well done. But it also kind of has this story about his two sons and how they, you know, they've been working in this kitchen. with the world's greatest sushi chef and the sort of pressure that can come from that. Absolutely. And the directions that they go. Yeah. I mean, that's why I love documentary a lot because it kind of has these like real people's lives which can't be like, they just have all these complications and things in them. It's just like, it's, yeah, I don't know. I know what you mean. If you want to make a really compelling doc, I was going to ask you this, have you ever made a documentary or do you think it'd be on the cards for you to make one in the future? Because you're kind of into photography, aren't you? I do, I like, I did a documentary class before I like dropped out of uni. But I did do, I did do a doc. What was your doc on? It was about this. So this guy had, it was like. It was about this rooftop apartment in town and it was just where these guys lived but they turned it into this venue sort of thing. So they were having this big party there. So it was kind of meant to be around the planning of it and the actual party. But it could have been better and it focused a lot on the person organizing it, Devin Webb, who's like a poet. I think she's moved back to Auckland now, I think. Right, right. A really good poet, but at the time she was pushing this party stuff. pushing the music gig things. Right. Yeah, and I think it could have been, like it was good, but it could have been amazing if we, if we, because we did one party, but we didn't do like the main party. And that would have been unreal. I wonder if it's the sort of thing where you might need to do like a few of them and then kind of take the best off. Cause I think when you're making a docker, it's like you said, with the two sons and, and the, the father and the sushi one, it's kind of like. you almost need like an arc in amongst the thing that you're showcasing. Well, I don't know if you need one, because the Pet Cemetery one didn't necessarily have an arc. I feel like the first half of that movie had a bit of an arc, and then it moved on to a super bunch of characters. Yeah. But I was watching, even something like, I was watching another, they were like, it was a father and son duo, and they were restoring... like antique, like, you know, like those ancient vases you would see, like, like Indiana Jones stealing or something like that. Yeah, okay. Do you know what I mean? Political push from Indiana Jones. Cancel Indiana Jones. No. But you know what I mean, those ancient, like, the only term I know of them is a Ming vase, but I think that's a particular era of Chinese history, but they were fixing these Japanese artifacts like that. But also in amongst the documentary they had. It was a similar kind of thing. The idea of like the father passing the business down to his son almost and kind of like the pressure on his son to step it up. And I think, you know, his father was like the best guy at doing this in Japan. So it was big, big shoes to fill kind of thing. But yeah, that kind of thing, I feel like always kind of elevates a documentary when you have like a little mini storyline in between. Yeah, well, I think that aspect of family pops in and it becomes like so large. I think that's something that a lot of people can relate to that sort of feeling of like having to fulfill like a family's expectations and a family's like things. Um, cause I mean that pops up in this film too, because the second one is run by, um, this dad who has his two sons working on it and then there's sort of the aspect of like the younger son. having more control, like he's worked there longer, so he kind of like is the boss a little bit of his older brother or he just he knows the ropes, like he knows how things are done. Yeah, one thing at the end of that when he's talking about how he the older brother, like one thing about this documentary is because it's from 50, nearly 60 years ago from now, the language they use is different in little ways, like At the end, he says something about, you know, the brother, he finds it disagreeable and he finds that frustrating or something to be told what to do. And I just thought, I don't know if you'd hear people talk like that. That almost seems like more formal in ways they would use certain language. Another scene that stuck out to me is, do you remember when there was a guy talking about the economics behind a pet cemetery and that like the family unit has changed where it used to be? the man goes to work and the housewife goes to the kids, but now that they're both working, he says something like, she wants something she can fondle at the house, and the word fondle, I feel like, has kind of fallen out of use a little bit. It feels a bit more sinister to 2023. No, you can't say fondle without it being some sort of euphemism or like, because people just only assume that's one thing. Yeah. Yeah, you know, it's funny, he does say that, you've missed out the bit where he says, I think, I think I wrote it down, he says, I think the pill is the highest reason for the explosion in pets. Yes, you're right, yeah. Yeah, and he's talking, you know, he's talking about the pill, which must have been like new at the time, I don't know when the pill like came out, but yeah. But he was saying because the pill, the women aren't having kids and so they're getting a pet. Yes. And then not only that, there's no grandchildren for the elderly people. So they're also getting a pet. So he's like, it's a three way explosion. Absolutely. That was quite an interesting scene, I thought, because you don't even think it's these weird knock on effects in business. Like I know, I tangentially heard of a guy who had just an import export company. And when this is when I was living in Japan as well, they had that Fukushima reactor meltdown. Um, they started selling Geiger counters on their website and made like a killing. Crazy. So it's just weird little things like that in business that you, you never think about. Um, the other thing I was going to say about that, Oh, the whole, like, you know, a lot of people, especially now can't even afford to have children. Like it's not necessarily the pill stopping them. It's like that, like they just can't afford to have a family. Um, so I feel like, you know, dogs, especially are becoming like, well, even cats. You know, a lot more young people are having them. And I remember seeing an episode of Dragon's Den, or, you're familiar with that show? I am. Someone pitched an idea for dog ice cream, and the dragons just about laughed them out of the den like, oh, no one's gonna, no one's gonna spend money on that. And it's, they were probably about 10 years too early, but now, you hear an idea like dog ice cream and you go, oh, that's genius, like, people will be spending thousands of dollars on that. Yeah, I think like if you go to Countdown or whatever now, there's heaps of stuff that's like dog food, but it's made to look like human food. I wonder how often people get confused by that. Oh, well I did, like, well I didn't buy it, but I like, the reason I noticed it is because it was in like the reduced thing and I was like, oh, this looks pretty good. And it's like, it's because it's for dogs. Yeah. Hey, this is good for bones. Oh man, I can get a shiny coat and a strong tail. What a detail. It's a seal. I was going to ask as well. Good for all breeds. So that's an interesting marketing. Yeah, that's a bold marketing choice that I'd use there. That's what I think about this film as well is like, I think at the time the idea of a pet cemetery to people seemed a little bit crazy. Yes, you're right. But now it would be like. If somebody was like, oh yeah, I got my dog buried at the pet cemetery. Maybe they wouldn't know that the pet cemetery was there. It doesn't seem like a crazy thing. No, not at all. I never thought about that, but you're right. I feel like pets have had a big jump in quality of life in the last 20 years maybe because do you remember when you would see dog poop that was just white on the side of the road or whatever and we never knew what? And it was probably because dogs were being fed like, you know, sawdust and bone meal or something in those big sausages you would get. I just thought it meant that people weren't picking it up. Maybe. And nobody picked it up and it just stayed unclean. Maybe that is what happened. I would be curious to find out if that was the reason, but I don't know. In my head that was always like, because dogs are eating better now. That is. It's not as... not as chalky. That's funny though. You see all these people selling like raw dog food and freeze-dried kind of stuff and I don't know, it just seems like pets back in the day used to have it fairly rough compared to what pets would kind of have nowadays. Yeah, I guess so. I think the white dog poop thing is pretty funny. The fact that you don't see it anymore and it still like registers as something that... Yeah. Yeah, you're right. I was gonna say as well, did you have a lot of pets growing up? We didn't have too many. We had like, the first cat that we had that was like our own was this cat Misty, which we got when my cousins moved away from Wellington. So they like gave us their cat, which was like 11 or 12 at the time. And then... It was okay, it got old very fast. Yeah, 1150 at that point. It started walking around, it was like, you just like, you wouldn't see it for a couple hours and then you'd come back and it'd be like, oh it's got like a limp, it's just like struggling along. It's like, I don't know, I don't know what cats are like, but this cat was just, it was funny because it would just limp along and it'd act like nothing was wrong, you know? I think, like if a dog is hurt, I think it'll come up to you and like, wanna like, be d- close or whatever, but this cat was just like, no, I'm not going to. I'm pretty nonchalant. This is just how I do things. Yeah. The, um, we had a, I always find it funny how quickly animals cope with what would be a devastating injury to humans. Maybe like we've got a cat on our street. Um, I saw it a couple of times. He used to come out. It was really brave. It was a little kitten that we just used to walk into the house. So if we had the door open and stuff, and then. It had four legs when I first met it and then one day I just had three legs. Wow. But hasn't slowed it down, still playful but still runs around like it yeah they are very mentally resilient I suppose aren't they? Well they do get into fights quite often right? Like you know as it is like if you were to get into a fight and somebody scratched you and like left like a mark. It's like a chunk out of your ear or something, right? Yeah, I know. That would be like, that would be a story for like a long time. But that's just, it's just life for them. You want to know how I got these scars? Yeah, yeah. You know why they call me scar? Yeah, yeah. That's a very cat thing. Yeah. It is, isn't it? Dogs, not so much, though. I think dogs are pretty, they don't tend to leave. Well, cats, I always used to say that having a cat was a bit like having a secret agent for a pet, because they would just disappear. Like you say, disappear for a long period of time and then come back limping and you're just like, where have you been? Oh yeah, yeah. I think it's one of those things where cats like to fight old cats as well. So like, because they're just, they're kind of like, like a dog seems to get mad at any dog, like it'll bark at any dog, whereas a cat just wants to fight cats that it'll win against. Yeah, that old like, Sonzu, the art of war, never pick a fight, you can't, you can't win. Yeah, I'll read that to a dog next time I get one. Yeah teach them how to teach them how to do it So we are we've got about seven minutes left in the zoom call Let's get a little bit into some of your creative projects that you are working on You are the sort of driving force behind a couple of gigs. Are you still doing Wally Tonight? We haven't done Wally Tonight in a little while. Wally Tonight is like our sketch Show based around it's essentially like a late night show where every act is a sketch. Do you know what I mean? But the sketches are all based around the late night thing. So whatever you might see on a late night show becomes the basis for a sketch. As heaves of fun is a lot of work and we lost a lot of money last time we did it. So if you're in Wellington, definitely go check it out. I was gonna say I saw one sketch where Danny was in some kind of green full body costume and... We ran at the camera, what was the context behind that? That was our panel show, that's Don't Quit Your Day Job. Oh, okay. Yeah, that was the one, so that show is, we will do that again, that show is like a panel show where we see which comedians are able to do a job in the real world. So that job was filmmakers, and Danny decided to dress up as the green screen. So he didn't have to do that. That was all on his own. That wasn't like a written bit or anything. He was just happy he did it. Yeah. And so you the host of, you have a cohost, don't you? For Don't Quote Yourself. I used to, but now I just host it on my own. So like essentially it's just me and Finn came up with the idea. Now... We have like a cast of improv actors and Lisa who plays like one of the team captains. Yeah Yeah, that shows like that shows really fun. It's very much like QI mixed with Thank God you're here. If you know that yeah. Yeah, I love that show. Yeah, so it's heaps of like quirky tidbit question things. Yeah, and Then like a lot of improv stuff love it. So that's like Kipling and Mogg uh, two of our actors, sometimes Lucy, but she's not in Wellington anymore. Yeah. So then you've got, you have your jam as well. The, is it just a comedy jam? Is that a fairly typical open mic or have you got a kind of point of difference for that one? Um, that one's like all alternative, alternative comedy, you know? So it's like, you have clowns and magicians and musical acts. Anything that's not mainstream comedy essentially like character acts I'm happy with. Oh no, I'm stoked. I'm stoked with. Sorry, you know, if you're a character act, you'll do more than just fine. Sorry. But that one I love. Like I really, I love that one. I love the branding behind that one. Yeah. It's just like... It's just seeing people do the weird stuff. It's nice to see people who do mainstream things as well. And then they come in and they do something a little bit crazy with it. Yeah. That's very cool. Cause you yourself, you are a little, I guess we could say you're an alt comic cause you do a bit of music and you do some mind reading and you do a few things that people might not consider like traditional standup, I guess, right? Yeah. I think. I don't know, I'm like, I love doing like every style of comedy. Yeah. I know what you mean. Yeah, I've kind of like, now I don't, like I don't, like I told myself like just do the jokes that you come up with, do you know what I mean? Like now I'm not really coming up with many musical jokes and I'm probably coming up with just more general, it's probably closer and closer to like regular talkie stand-up comedy, you know what I mean? What one? One thing I always liked about your presentation was it really felt like you dragged the audience into your world. Because of all these things that you did, there was the music, the way you would like, I don't know, the way you banter with the crowd is very like, it's very earnest, if that makes sense. And it's funny that you say that because I feel like I make fun of the crowd more than I've seen other people do. I have always. Like, and that's because I really don't like them. You know what I mean? Like, sorry. You resent them for being here. What are you doing here? So we've got a couple of minutes left. Anything else that you work on? I feel like we've got the ones that I know of, you might have something else that I'm forgetting. Lunch. I don't know. What is it called? Chop shop? Lunch shop? Something like that. Chop shop. People should definitely check out Chop Shop. I love the design of that. It's got a cat on the poster, so I'm sold. Yeah, yes. It seems like it's another alternative kind of showcase. What's the, cause you're on that most times, aren't you? Yeah, we got like a little, what do we call them? We got like a little posse. We've got a little group that kind of keeps going back. Yeah. And you do something new. You do something new each time. Yeah. Do something new, do something crazy. And it's, and it's like, It's really like a, it's purposefully been like a mix of like some of the weirder comics in Wellington. Yeah, I always use the word weird, but I don't mean it in a bad way, but like, um, but it's always good to be a little bit. Yeah. I think, yeah, especially in Wellington. Wellington is the perfect city for that. It's tough and cautious. Yeah, it's just not right enough to put on these kind of weird, um, I just used the word weird without thinking about it now as well. But do you know what I mean? Yeah, like it would be hard to get a lineup of people that could do something new each. How often do you do Chop Shop? Is that once a month? That's once a month. I mean, it's like- It might be possible here. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. I like the concept though. And I think the jam is probably something different from each people, each person, each time, right? Yeah, I love the comedy jam because it's like, it just kind of like filters out the people. you know, because I think there's always like, it just, it just has this nice little, the fact that it has to be something outside of the mainstream means that it's going to be people who are coming in and doing something different and doing something strange. And usually it's like, it's lovely. Like it's a really lovely vibe. It looks really cool. I'm very jealous of it. So basically we run out of time there. I really appreciate you joining us. I will do a little outro as well with all of your social media plugs. I'll check the links to the events. Thank you for joining me. I really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks man. I know maybe this wasn't that funny, but I did really enjoy talking about this documentary. I have a lot of thoughts about it. Well, we always say, if you're not laughing, you're learning and I think we do. Okay, yeah. Hopefully people are learning. Yeah. Okay, thanks bro. Okay, catch you later man. We are back again. I hope you enjoyed that conversation. It was definitely something a little bit different. It was... I'd never even heard of the documentary before, but after researching it a little bit, I ended up discovering it's one of the most sort of well-received documentaries out there. And it was just a lot of fun talking about it with Hoani, talking about something different, trying to pretend that I'm an intellectual talking about documentaries for a change. I believe we got all the plugs in during the actual recording of that, but if you want to check out Hoani's social media, I'll chuck some links in the show notes via the checkout. definitely get along to any of the shows that he's involved with producing. Very, very creative guy, very, very funny, just all-round good comic. I think we're going to get Hwani back in future episodes. He's definitely keen to talk about more documentaries. He told me about, I think another documentary came up during the recording of that, and he also told me about one that he wanted to discuss. I think in a few weeks we will bring him back and have another documentary discussion. If there's a particular documentary that you think would be good for us to discuss, send me a DM on any of my socials or send us an email to TaylorOdellComedy at gmail.com and I'd love to know what you want to hear us talk about. Given that podcast was a little bit shorter than the kind of 40 minutes we try to shoot for I might give you a little bit of a life update now. I think by the time this releases I will have been... unemployed slash funemployed slash self-employed for about two months now. And I gotta tell you, it has gone surprisingly, one might say suspiciously well. I'm actually really baffled at how well everything's going right now. I was thinking about creating like a mini blog or something and talking about the highs and lows of being an independent kind of event. I don't know what my job title is. I don't want to be so haughty as to say I'm a full-time comedian, but yeah, I don't know, I'm a full-time gig seeker. I'll think of a better name for that. But yeah, I've just been thinking a lot about the... when people talk about the highs and lows of showbiz, they are not kidding. It is a real roller coaster. And this is actually going to become a little bit more relevant. And I think the next podcast we're going to be releasing is going to be a chat with my good friend Hamish. Again, this time we're talking about the ideas of FOMO and phobia, the fear of missing out and the fear of being included. And this one thing I think a lot of comedians really struggle with is the idea of the fear of missing out, especially I think if you're in the audience and you're not on a show but you're watching everyone perform, you really get that FOMO. But then also for me, just seeing people producing gigs that I'm not on, I'll get a little bit of I'm a myself even though I'm on a lot of stuff and it's all kind of self-produced and it's very strange the way the human brain works I think this potentially might be a quirk to just me but I know there are a lot of comics that also feel like this when they see other people doing cool stuff and then the wildest thing about show business is it can all just change in an instant like I'll give you an example of a day that I had this It'll be weeks ago by the time this episode comes out, but for me recording now, it was a couple of days ago. I put an inquiry into a quiz host group for people looking for people to host quizzes, kind of put yourself down as like a list on a list of people to be considered. Excuse me. And this one thing that we often joke about a full time comedian really just means a full time pub quiz host that does comedy on the side. But. I don't feel the kind of shame that I think a lot of comedians do Hosting a pub quiz. I'm honestly just happy not to be in a nine-to-five. I think after spending eight years Doing kind of desk offici Nine to five and then like another three years before that when I was doing hospitality like I just was really not happy And those kind of environments and so I think so being self-employed It just seems to work for me better and I know people there are people out there that they kind of need the structure of a nine to five and it is actually very good for them to have the routine but I always seem to feel trapped and really just don't know it grinds me down over a period of many years almost to the point where I don't quite notice it like I've noticed a massive improvement in my mood since going back to being kind of self-employed I just feel like I'm a lot happier. And you know, that's not a knock on any of my previous employers. I think it's just the nature of working in an office nine to five doesn't work for some people. I don't know if I'd be any happier doing something outdoorsy either. I think, yeah, I don't know. I think I have to be doing something that I'm passionate about and then like that is my kind of job. I'm getting a little off topic here. What I was talking about was the pub quiz thing. So in one day, I had a few inquiries about a pub quiz. I got... Jeez, what was it? Actually thinking back now, I don't know if this is one day. I'll just kind of give you like a week, a week in my life, because when you're unemployed, man, days of the week become completely meaningless. I have no idea what day of the week it is anymore. So yeah, just in this one week, I had to cancel two shows that we were running due to lack of sales. Winter can be pretty brutal for gigs in New Zealand, in my experience. So I was feeling pretty down about that. I feel my typical kind of FOMO seeing other people running gigs, but then within like a week or two, we established a new comedy show at the Austin Club. Really excited to getting back to that. I think by the time this goes out, we'll have already done a couple of shows there. I had an inquiry about doing a road gig up North in Blenheim. I had a couple of potential quiz hosts. I'm gonna have a call with someone next week about potentially running a quiz in Ashburton. We got a massive, which is huge for Can Do Comedy. We had an inquiry about doing a corporate show, which would be our kind of first proper, like we go to a company to entertain them. I've done it myself before, but never under Can Do Comedy. So that's really exciting for us. And so I think you can see what I mean when I talk about the highs and the lows. Like I was feeling right at rock bottom when we had to cancel those two shows only for like the following day. bunch of new inquiries and opportunities coming in and I'm a hesitant to use the word blessed but I'm feeling very blessed at the moment. We've sort of been talking about this with the people in my life as to whether all of these opportunities coming in is a result of me now having a lot more time to put into the gigs or if they would have been coming in anyway thanks to I don't know our social media and stuff. I'm not really too sure, but I guess what I, the main message I'd like everyone to take away is that I'm very happy with life right now. I am somehow making, like paying my rent, all my bills are paid, got food in the pantry, like it's all, and it's all just off of running gigs and doing a little bit of graphic design on the side. I have worked very hard. I saved up for, God, five, six, seven years to make sure I had that like a little. Little bit of a financial buffer in case things go really bad, but mostly it seems like I may not have to go back to a 9-5, which I'm really stoked about. So this is a little bit of a life update for you there. I hope my good fortune is still continuing by the time this podcast goes out. As always, you can find me on all the social medias at TaylorOttoComedy, except for Twitter, where on Twitter my handle is just at TaylorOtto. I've been posting a lot of one-liners and single jokes. just that pictures with funny captions that kind of thing. Honestly, mainly I just use Twisted Twitter so that I can screenshot it and post it to my other socials, but I'm on Twitter in case you wanna follow me. Thanks again for listening, really appreciate your time. I hope this adds something to your week. Hope you learned something about documentaries, talking to Hwani about it. And I hope you tune in next week for the next episode of Ruddle Me This. Ruddler out.