Today I sit down with my very good friend Hamish and we talk about the ideas of FOMO - Fear Of Missing Out and FOBI - Fear Of Being Included. The conversation fairly quickly becomes one about a lot of my personal anxieties as well as the situations in which Hamish feels FOBI rather than FOMO. It's a great little lighthearted chat about how difficult navigating social situations can be, especially during adult life. Hope you enjoy it!
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Good morning, Rattle Maniacs. It is the Ruddler back again for another episode of Rattle Me This. Hope you had a great weekend and I hope you've got a fantastic week ahead of you. We've got a great show for you today. My good friend Hamish is returning to the show. For those of you who remember, we talked, we did a long episode about the fantasy idea that I had when I was 15. Hamish is coming back. I wanted to talk to someone about FOMO and phobia, fear of missing out and... fear of being included. And I thought Hamish would be a good foil for this because he is a more level-headed and kind of, he seems like he's on top of his, he's on top of his social anxieties and stuff, unlike me at the best of times. The conversation didn't necessarily stick just to phomo and phobia, we ended up talking a lot about anxieties, travel anxieties and a little bit of things that we've inherited from our parents. It was a pretty tangent-y podcast, so I hope that's okay, and I hope you enjoy it. So with that, welcome back to the show, my friend and yours, Hamish. welcome back to the podcast. Thank you for having me again. Delightful to have you back. I always enjoy our chats. So today I felt like what could be an interesting topic for us to cover would be the topics of FOMO and FOBIE. We've spoken a tiny bit about this over Messenger and you seemed fairly familiar with the concepts of them but Maybe you're a more social animal than me and you don't necessarily feel these as strongly as I might. So would that be fair to say, like, do you have a lot of experience with FOMO just in life or through stand-up gigs? No, no, not really. I think for me, most of the time I'm happy to be left out sometimes. I just need to recharge the batteries a little bit. That's the phobia, yeah. Yeah, if I don't get invited, I'm happy with that. I'm like, oh, no, damn. King for the next one, though. Yeah, to the listeners, FOMO is F-O-M-O. That's the fear of missing out. And FOBI, F-O-B-I, is fear of being included. And I think I first saw the term in Ornie Adams, who's a comedian who did a podcast with Bert Kreischer. And the title was something like Ornie Adams has FOBI. And I was like, oh, that's really Interesting. So yeah, I guess would you say you're pretty introverted or you have kind of like a limited social battery? Yeah, I think I have a fairly limited social battery sometimes less so than others like, you know, I might go to a party and I don't really know anyone there, but I can make friends pretty quickly other times. I'm just not in the Headspace for it or like the mood and I just don't have the energy to talk to new people It's like an old school steam engine, right? Sometimes getting the steam engine from zero to running at a party when you're going from zero to that whole like getting to know you thing, that can be tough, can't it? Yeah, yeah, it definitely can. And yeah, there are like, so on the weekend, we went to a winter solstice party at our friend's house. Okay. And it's normally a pretty wide array of people. from workmates and old friends and all sorts. But I think they've tailored their friend group in such a way that we all get on reasonably well. Like you can talk to someone and it's normally all right. But you know, if it was, oh, I don't know, 10 years ago or something, and a friend was like, oh, come with me to my friend's flat party, and they're all just their friends or workmates, I'd be like, oh, God, I don't know anyone. I think that's a struggle. That's an experience we all have getting older is, um, the different phases of your life all have a friend group and they get smaller, I feel like as you go on and then when you have a birthday, you have this weird experience of having to bring all of your friend groups together and kind of realizing that like, maybe it's not as interesting for them as it is for you. Um, who knows everyone. Yeah. But like, I was trying to think of. because most people would have their kind of childhood friends, which they've stayed in touch with, maybe middle school and high school, kind of the same group. I think a lot of people tend to stay with the same groups. Then you've got your tertiary, the uni. And then after that, I guess would be whatever social clubs you're a part of, if you've got hobbies like martial arts or, you know, horse riding and whatnot. And then I suppose work friends, although... Yeah, that one... That one's kind of the most unique of them all because it's like, you know, you make friends, well, you know, you make friends because say with like a hobby group, it's like you've all got the same hobby you build from there, but it's like for work friends, literally you just work in the same place. You're just shut in the same room for eight hours a day. That's all you get. Let's be friends because I have literally no other choice. Yeah, very Stockholm syndrome, isn't it? But yes, the idea of FOMO, like I have this odd, I've never been super social. You know, I'm normally at home on a Friday, Saturday night kind of thing, just historically. But like, just as of kind of lately, I suppose it's probably the fear of your own mortality. I've been, you know, I turned 30 last year, so that is quite a big milestone for people. And... Like one example that really sticks out is a friend of mine went on a contiki holiday, I don't know what you call it, a quest, you know, whatever it is. I guess the colloquial term for them is a tiki tour, right? Yeah. Those like holidays on a bus kind of thing. And she posted on her Instagram story a bruise that she had from sleeping in a bathtub, because I'd been clubbing the night before, and like a little part of my mind was like... Did I waste my youth not doing stuff like that? But then the other side of your brain goes, am I really that upset that I didn't sleep in a bathtub two nights out of the week? Yeah. From partying. So it is a funny one, isn't it? The idea of youth is wasted on the young and trying to feel like you haven't just been, for lack of a better word, pissing away your youth only to later regret it. The other thing sort of related to that, that I thought is the idea of how weird retirement is when you really think about it. Like that's the supposed at the time of your life when you can travel and everything like that. But by the time that happens, you're almost too tired and too old to really make the most of it. Yeah. Yeah, I remember. Who was it? Is it Bill Mayer? The one of those late night TV hosts? Yeah, the sort of anti-Christian guy that seems to be what sticks in my head about him. Yeah, yeah, I think he made a movie about being an atheist or something. But semi-recently, when there was that case with that young woman who disappeared, like her and her boyfriend were traveling around the US in a van and she disappeared or whatever, before they knew if she was... dead or not, he had this piece that people, I think rightly, pilloried him for. But he had this piece about, oh, young people, why are you going and living in vans? That's for like retirees. Retirees are meant to do that. You're meant to earn the right to go on holiday and blah, blah. And it was like, why? Why do you have to have done that first? Why can't you just experience a bit of the world when you can and when you've still got the knees for it? When you can't sleep in a van because your back doesn't seize up after it. Yeah. Like, it was this weird kind of point of privilege that it was like, oh no, you've got to earn this right to go on holiday. And I was like, why? I do think that is really funny, the way he worded it. Why? Why are young people living in vans? Like, that just sounds so unglamorous when you put it that way. Yeah. Has the whole van life thing, has it ever kind of tickled you or not something you'd be interested in? No, not particularly. Like, I'm not a huge fan of camping. Yeah, you've got to be into camping in the outdoors and stuff. Yeah, like, I mean, I don't mind if it's maybe like one night or something. Like, that's okay, but. But certainly if it's gonna be, oh, we're gonna be up this mountain, it's gonna be rough, it'll be really rugged, it'll be raining the whole time. And I'm like, that sounds awful. Yes. It's like, I always think I, I love the idea of having a cheap place to sleep out on the road, like especially for standup gigs and stuff. But then I think about the lack of a shower and a lack of a toilet, and I think, oh yeah, I don't think I'd last. It would break me, I think. Yeah, that's always one of the things that I'm like sort of aware of. I'm like, is there going to be a bed somewhere I can put down my stuff without worrying that it'll go missing? And can I have a shower? Because sometimes, you know, you finish a day of travel and you just need a shower because you're like, I'm either stinky or sweaty. And you're like, I just need to feel a bit clean now. Yeah, I understand that completely. The idea of somewhere to leave your stuff is like. That's a deep-seated anxiety of mine is not wanting to put things down when I go out somewhere. The whole idea of people will just put their backpack or their handbag under the table when they go out to a restaurant or something is not like I have to hook the leg of the bag of the chair and continuously checking it to make sure it's still there. Just, yeah. That's a very deep-feeded anxiety of mine. Fair enough. I think my tactic for that is I'll always have it between my feet. So it's always touching. I can always feel it touching my legs because I'm like, I don't need this guy missing. 100%, 100%. That, it was like, there was an old episode of The Simpsons where Homer was boxing. just like boxcar, like homeless guys. And there was one dude who would do a couple of punches and then he would back up and he would check over his shoulder to make sure his stuff was still in the corner. And I just thought, oh God, I relate to that so much. That would be me just constantly checking to make sure it's still there. It's a bit like when you fly, do you have to go and first confirm that the gate that you're looking, that you're flying from does in fact exist? And then you can sort of have that a little bit of peace of mind. Yeah, I mean, not so much that. Yeah, I'm definitely one of those people though that I will go to my gate and then I'll just, even if I'm like three or four hours early or something, there's been a few flights where I've just, I've had nothing else to do and it was a big international flight. So I'm like, well, I'm going to the airport anyway and then end up sitting near the gate for a couple of hours because I'm like, it's better to just be there and I can do what I need to do than panning. What if they accidentally take off early? I won't, even though that's never happened, even though we all think it might. Yeah, what if I need to, just before the plane, you know, when I'm boarding, I just need to go to the toilet and then they're like, well, we've left and you're like, no. That's such a funny anxiety that I think we all kind of share to an extent. Like there's that old stereotype of... Dad's, you know, you've got to be at the airport at seven. So dad wakes you up at four in the morning to drive in and like all that kind of thing. Yeah. This is another, this, it's not exactly the FOMA, but it's something that I learned recently about my parents and where I get a lot of my, I guess travel anxiety is a good package to put it in. But another thing that stresses me out, if I'm going to go somewhere new for the first time, I'll often... look at streets on Google Map to see where I can leave the car. Like, again, leaving my stuff somewhere. It's like, it's always in my mind. And I recently learned that I got this from my parents. And I learned this because I was hosting a quiz in town. And my parents wanted to come along and kind of like just see what it's all about. And then so earlier that day, they went into town and. figuring out how long of a walk it was from where they were going to park to the thing and like where it was and I was just like oh I am you guys like that's where I get it from like that's exactly what it is. That's incredible. Have you had any experiences like that, where you saw something in your parents that is probably, I think, undiagnosed mental illness sounds a little bit harsh, but our parents' generation weren't super onto it in terms of stuff like recognizing anxiety, recognizing ADHD, and all that kind of thing. Have you ever noticed that in a parent and gone, ah, that's exactly where it comes from? Yes and no. So one thing that, I have noticed in my mum is she loves planning. She always plans everything. She's like fastidious in how much she will plan things out. You know, if we're having like Christmas dinner or, you know, some kind of big event where lots of people are coming, even when we go to a holiday house in central Otago, if it's for like the Christmas break, she will have every day planned for like meals, which... I understand is for, you know, making sure you've got the right groceries so that you don't have to keep going to the supermarket and stuff because it's a bit of a pain. But yeah, she loves planning. She's meticulous in it. But for me, I'm kind of the opposite. I don't really like planning. I'm like, nah, I'm good. So when I spent... two months traveling around Japan and a little bit in America, I didn't really plan anything. I had a list of places that I wanted to go and see within certain city areas. Yeah, yeah. And then that was kind of it, and everything else was kind of, I was just winging it. I'd just go for a walk and be like, oh, this restaurant looks all right, let's go here, or hey, what's this castle, or what's this place? And I would just go and have a look. So I ended up, you know... going to like the Tokyo Sumo Museum and learnt about like the world champion who has like an undefeated record of wins or something like that. Koppi Hakuro, he just retired this year actually. No I think he had died a few years ago but his wins are still, I don't know, he had like 60 something wins or something like that. Yeah, it's very like, it's very rare for them to go undefeated I think. because of that instantly you can kind of lose a sumo match. Um, but I think that kind of holiday is something that we all dream about doing somewhere where you just like the lack of responsibility is kind of what makes the holiday. Um, I've been very curious as to how I would respond to doing that, because as you've seen me talk about before, like it's, um, it would either be totally freeing and I would I would be loving it or I would be just not able to not think like, I don't have, I don't have accommodation booked tonight. What am I going to do? And just not enjoy it. Do you know what I mean? Like it's the, it would just be on my mind. Yeah. Like I would have my accommodation booked, you know, some of them, I think the closest I got was on the train to the city. I was booking accommodation because I found out the place I was in was in a really rough. area and it was like not a very nice place. So I was like trying to find a new place really quickly but for the most part yeah I would have it at least a couple of steps ahead so that I knew I was going to somewhere and that I had somewhere to drop my bags and then I could like the hotels were the bit that I was planning wherever I was going like the kind of the travel and the exploration was very much ad-libbed. Yeah, that's a good way to do it. I think that's probably what I would do as well. We've both done a little bit of travel for stand-up. For me, one of my favorite moments is when you finally get to drop your bags off at the accommodation. That's just like such a relief. I always seem to plan really poorly when I go to Auckland and every single time I've gone up there for gigs or something, I've left it to what I feel is like... know like two months out and I'm like oh that's ages like the flights won't be too bad at that point but apparently two months is nothing you have to be booking like I'm guessing six to a year in advance yeah and then so what happens is I end up getting having to take these stupidly early flights like six in the morning till seven and then you can't check into the hotel until 2 p.m or the hostel usually I stand hostels you can't check in till 2 p.m 3 p.m so I'm just kind of killing time in the city and I mean, it's all self-inflicted, but that relief, that relief I feel when I finally like when the key goes into your, um, into your door and you're like, ah, okay, like, again, it's the stuff, leaving my stuff down somewhere. That's, that's a big part of my life is making sure my stuff is safe. Yeah, no, I fully, I fully get you with that. Is, do you have, do you have any kind of anxieties that are just a daily life thing? because all of mine seem to be logistics based. Because you seem like you're a lot more, you have it more together than I do, but yeah, is there anything that you kind of, it's just a thing every day that you're comfortable talking about, of course? Yeah, there probably are a few. I'd have to think about them now. Yeah, we can come back to it. No, I think probably being on time is one that I... that worries me certainly if it's like, you know, like if it's a, if it's catching up with a friend for coffee or a beer or whatever, less pressure because it's like, Hey, I'll be there in a bit. Yeah. Not too worried. Yeah. But if it's something like, um, like a, like a doctor's appointment or something that has a set appointment time, then I'm, I'm always quite worried about that. And I'm planning out like, Okay, if I walk to there, then it's going to take about 20 minutes. So I should leave, you know, it's half past, so I should leave. I'll try and be getting out by like on the hour so that it gives me a little bit of extra time that I can, you know, I, I would rather kind of rush to get there than sit in the waiting area for a bit and cool down rather than like sprint to get in. And then they're like, come on through your legs. And I'm like, oh, God, I'm so sorry. Yeah. So, so yeah, that's, that's probably my main one. I used to be like that. But somehow as I've gotten older, maybe as I've gotten lazier, I, but I definitely understand that idea of like, I would be there 15 minutes early in the parking lot in my car before an appointment or something. But as of late, I've been playing it pretty fast and loose with certain appointments that I expect are going to be delayed. Like if I, I was seeing my physiotherapist for a bit and I noticed that when I turned up, I would be waiting there for about five minutes before I would. see the physio. So I thought I can turn up on whatever and never had a sculling from the reception person or anything. So how are you like going to the movies? You know there's sort of two types of people. There's people that turn up when the movie ticket says the movie's starting and then just sits through the commercials or are you someone that's happy just walking in during the commercials? I'm the person who gets there in time. You know, I'm there before they've opened the doors and then I go through, watch the credit, you know, the trailers and whatever. Which are stupid trailers at the start. It's like they're meant to be at the end. They're meant to trail it. But no, that was- Oh yeah, I never noticed that, but good, that's- Yeah, that's because I think originally that's what they were meant to be. They were meant to come after, so they were like a trailer. Yes, okay. That makes perfect sense. At the back end. Man, welcome to Nomenclature with Hamish and Taylor this week, huh? The weird origins of things that I know, that are all just hiding away somewhere. I just recorded another podcast before this, and in that, I used the phrase, if you're not laughing, you're learning. So that's why I like to hope this podcast gives people... Yeah. I'm happy to teach. Exactly. But no, so in my friend group, I think most of us were of the, be there early, you know, movie starts at quarter past eight. So we all try to be there by about eight. Yeah. So that we can get our tickets, get food, whatever, and then we're ready to go. There is one friend who I won't name. I know what this friend is going to be like. Yeah, he is the notorious one that you're messaging him at 8 like, hey man, the movie starts in a bit, where are you? And he's like, oh yeah, just leaving now. Yeah. Okay, you live about 10 minutes away, drive, then you've got to find a park and do all of that. And he'd be coming in basically pretty on the line. Yeah. Or he was notorious that he'd be like, yeah, I'll be there soon. And two hours later, he'd eventually arrive and you're like, hey man, how you doing? It's like the two groups of people, you know, there's, I feel like when you go to the movies with a friend, you kind of have that clash between the people that are happy to just turn up whenever and the people that really want to be there on time. And I used to always butt heads with friends who would, they would want to go, there's a mall in Christchurch, the people that, you've been to Christchurch a few times haven't you? Yeah, ever since I was a kid. There's a mall called Westfield, I think you would know that probably. And the movie theater is the opposite end of the mall to Pack and Save, which is the cheap supermarket in New Zealand. And people would turn up like on the movie start time and then want to walk to the other end of the mall, go shopping at Pack and Save for stuff, hide it under their jumper or hide it in their backpack and then try and sneak it into the movie theater. I've never been busted for that and I suspect they probably wouldn't do more than just be like no you can't take that and I'm gonna take it off you but like in my head it was it would always be the end of the you know the worst possible outcome if we got busted with somebody trying to sneak like um I don't know I don't even remember what people probably just jumbo bags of candy and stuff like that right? Yeah like a bag of Maltesers or a... Diet Coke or something that you don't want to pay for the big cup. Exactly. I've seen people take kebabs into a movie before, because they used to give them to you wrapped up in tin foil, so you could kind of like slip it into your pads. Like you've got like a um, like if you've got deep pockets, you could kind of slide that into your pocket and bring that in. But as soon as you open it, you can smell the kebab. Like it's not subtle at all. No, no. Yeah, I think I knew a few people who would do that where I guess you wait until the usher is no longer taking tickets at the door. Oh. Once I think once the trailers start or something. Yeah. They go away and so then you can just walk in. Oh, interesting. It's not such an issue. That might make quite a funny heist movie is the idea of trying to sneak things like a reverse heist you're trying to sneak things into the movie theater and like You have this Danny Ocean figure who's putting together a team again. You know, this guy is the best butter chicken expert. He can slip a butter chicken in past the strictest of ASB stadium security guards. You know, hit the rugby or something. Oh man, the things you see working like sports games and things. My flatmate and I, well my best friend and I, we used to live together and we would, for a while we worked at cricket games here in Dunedin. Oh, that's cool. And we would work the bar typically. They would, most of them they put us in the sort of, the executive bar for like, I think they were national bank customers. So it was a lot of. Oh. mid 50s and later farmers who were basically being sponsored to be there. Their bank had just been like, oh well, do you want to come to the cricket? And so they had the best seats basically on this big stand looking out over the ground and they would just drink all day. And wow. Yeah. We just had to hand them beers. But this other time we got given the bar at the front gate and so we were watching all the people trying to sneak their stuff in and security busting them each time. And it was, you know, it was girls with like a big blanket duvet thing all bundled up, all in like a big roll. And security would be like, coming up please. And then they would just reach into the middle of it and pull out a full bottle of wine. They're like, no, sorry, you can get it back at the end if you want. And they'd put it in like a big barrel. The best one that I saw, and I was like, damn, you were so close. They were wearing a puffer jacket because you know, it was... It was a weekday morning and I think it was a bit chilly but it warmed up. Yeah, yeah. This person had their puffer jacket on and security were happy for them to go past. They didn't have anything on them and they walked about two meters and they pulled something out of their pocket. I think their phone or something. But that obviously hooked the hip flask that they had in their pocket, which clattered to the ground. And security was like, come back here, please. And I give us that. You can have it back at the end. I don't think they ever did. I think most people were too ashamed and they just left via another gate. I was gonna say, that's an interesting, I would love to see people coming back for their booze. And cause I've seen videos, it was like there was this old television show called Pulp Sport where they used to make a thing out of trying to sneak beer into sports. And I remember them chucking stuff into a big blue wheelie bin. That would be where all the like contraband goes. And... I would love to see people fishing through that, looking for their particular bottle of wine. Because I'm guessing people aren't putting their name on stuff. They're probably just, like you say, if they got busted, then they're pretty happy to just .. Well, I'd be real curious to see what... I would assume it gets distributed amongst the security staff, which could be a little bit of a perk of a job. Maybe they share it with the visiting teams. Yeah. Yeah, you got a little southern hospitality, right? Yeah, I think the best one, I mean, it might be completely apocryphal, but the best story I heard of someone sneaking booze into a sport match, I think it may have been a rugby game or something. They filled up their chili bin, they had it with ice and water and they put their bottles of Coke in it because you were allowed... soft drinks, I think, but not like alcohol. Makes sense, yeah. But it turned out that what that actually filled the chili bin with was vodka, or water. Oh my goodness. And so the vodka was already on ice so they could just scoop out a thing and then just top it up with Coke. Oh my god. And they had vodka and Coke all day. That is pretty smart, to be honest, because alcohol doesn't freeze, does it? No. That's genius. Yeah. I mean, if people question them... It's like, no, we're just keeping hydrated, man. We're just like, you know, we've got to keep the fluids up. It's a hot day. We're watching the cricket. Long, long cricket game. Offering the players a glass of water, quote unquote, water. Yeah, wondering why they're steadily getting more and more, like, intoxicated. It's brilliant. So we've well and truly gone off the topic of a firmer. We have. But I mean, you know, with these things, it's more about where it goes than where it starts. We've got about 10 left, so let's circle back to this FOMO thing. All right. I noticed, have you ever been someone that's worked for a company that do like the Friday night drinks with the co-workers? Yeah. A few of the jobs that I've had, we would try and organize like social events. It normally ended up just being Christmas. Yeah. That we would do like a kind of end of year drinks, maybe go for dinner and drinks and stuff. you know, some people would decide to go home early and a couple of us would carry on, go to another bar or something and hang out for a bit. The key we worked through is a great one. It is. I was going to say, we kind of touched on this a little bit, but the idea of that friend in the friend group who's actually proactive about planning stuff is such an unsung hero of the friend group. Because like, I have a small group of lads that we usually go out and... you know, everyone will kind of bring their partners and have like a, you know, be like a nice dinner or we'll go play, we'll go play mini golf or ping pong. And there's like one, um, one guy who's really proactive about making it happen, but it's like you say, it's like birthdays are usually when it kind of people, people don't have an excuse not to go. But the whole idea of being that friend who plans things is like, it's a bit like running a standup gig. You have to deal with a lot of rejection. And Like I am trying to be more proactive in my life about organizing social things, especially now that I'm unemployed and have a lot more time. I'm not getting home from work on a Friday, just exhausted and like don't want to deal with people for another two days. Yeah. But yeah, though, I would just like to extend a salute to those of you out there. If you know, if you're listening and you know that you're the planning friend who like put makes a group chat and puts together the, sends the ticketing link and actually books things and stuff just to say, I appreciate you, you know. It's thankless work, but somebody's got to do it. That has just reminded me of two, two bits of phobia that I have. So one of them was an experience I had at a previous job where they were trying to organize a social event. for us to like a team bonding kind of thing. Yeah. And the rough plan that they had was one of two things was either going for a full day fishing trip on a Saturday, out on a boat with just the workmates. And I was like, I honestly can't think of anything worse. That's like another shift at work. Yeah, it's like another shift at work and also I can't just leave. Like, you know, you go out for Friday drinks, you can be like, look, I'm going to stay for a drink. Yeah. And then I'll bounce or some friends of mine, I'm going to meet them and I'm going somewhere else. Yeah. You're fine. But yeah, this was like, no, we'll be out either in the harbor or out at sea or something, fishing for the whole day. Slightly further than swimming distance, right? Like you couldn't just... Yeah. I've definitely declined offers of a ride because I didn't want to be trapped somewhere and just said no, because I don't drink so it's, I'm never in any danger of needing a sober day. But yeah, that idea of certain, because we were kind of talking about this, like what events do cause you to have phobia and that is a big one is the element of not being able to leave when you want to. I've been to weddings before where I didn't realize how much of a ceremony it was going to be and I assumed it was just like, hey, we can pop in and say hi and hey, congratulations. And then you see that they've got an itinerary and you go, oh crap, I haven't brought any sunscreen. Like I'm wearing your sandals. Like, you know, I'm not prepared for the full day of this. Well, the other plan that these people had for the work... Oh yeah, sorry, I forgot, go ahead. That's quite alright. The other plan they had was an escape room. And that one immediately got... I guess maybe there's some of my anxieties as well. I get kind of claustrophobic sometimes, so like if a friend has a two-door car, if I'm sitting in the back, I get very uncomfortable when I'm like, no, I need you to get out of the seat so that I can get out now, please. Oh, you have that? I can't just... The friend that gets out and then doesn't put the seat forward for you to get out and you're kicking the seat. Oh, evil. Oh yeah, no that's... yes, I understand that very well. Yeah, but so my thing with this escape room was I've never done an escape room. They seem like fun. But also, I think a part of me would get very frustrated at people if they're not solving things quick enough. I'm like, you idiot! And it's like... I think that's appropriate with your friends because you have that level of banter or whatever where you can be like, oh, you dumbass, you're not doing this right, get out of the way, I'll do it or something. Yeah. But to do that to a workmate and then suddenly you've got to see that person on Monday and I was like, yeah, I'd really rather not. I don't want to become that person. That's an interesting dynamic of the work out is the fact that... actions have consequences, I suppose is the best way to put that in terms of how you behave at the work party and how you behave at the social club events and yeah, you can't be as like, you can't be as free as you'd like maybe with your language when you're with your co-workers outside of work. You have to still be a little bit guarded perhaps, that yeah, you can't be as... open and honest as you might be with anyone else. Yeah. I've had job work outings that, now this is what I hate companies that do this, is they present a work outing as though it's optional, but then we all know it's not, but they word it as in like, we'd be delighted if you join us to the something-something tavern and... It'd be great to see everyone there. And don't forget who signs your checks, peasant. You know what I mean? Like they don't have to see. There's that like undertone, that like kind of underlying. It's during work hours. So you are not going to this. Yeah. But the funny thing is for me, I would be fine if the email just said, we're having a mandatory event. You are required to attend. And then you can leave when your shift is up. I would be like, cool, I'm happy with that. But this element of like, well, we would just love it if you would join us. And, you know, you like only if you want to. I mean, you know, it's not up to you, but like, we're going to make it seem like it is up to you. And just I hate that we could probably do another podcast on the. the politics of having to, like I'm working on a standup routine about having a job is like being a sugar baby, but the other party is in denial about you being their sugar baby. It's the whole thing of like when you get, when you have like a work outing and you're all sitting around to dinner or something and the manager says something like, you know, you guys love working here, don't you? And you kind of have to be like... Well, I mean, you know, you pay us and that's why we turn up and whatever. Yeah. Yeah, it's It is a strange relationship The almost the expectation that you've got to kind of flatter them or that you laugh at their jokes or whatever so that they feel I don't know. Whatever. Whatever it is that you just kind of boost their ego a little bit and you're like The funny thing is though I'd be I would immediately go back to I get weirdly precious about comics not sharing the event page to shows that I'm paying them to be on. So maybe I'm just as bad. Maybe I'm the sugar daddy who's like, are you actually like hanging out with me? Don't you? We have a good time. Like so. Say, say you have a good time. Tell everyone how much you like doing my gags. Just like, yeah, I get, I get weird about this. But yeah, to be honest, I shouldn't cast, I shouldn't cast stones as I'm not without sin. I learned how much of a tyrant I would be playing Harvest Moon the other day, which is this farming simulator. Sounds ridiculous when you say it out loud, but it's a farming video game and you can hire these characters. They're called the Harvest Sprites and they're like little elf things that you give them presence and then you build up like a relationship with them. And then once it gets to a certain amount, you can ask them to help you on the farm. And you usually ask them, you know, can you come by tomorrow and look after the animals or help us harvest or water my crops? Those are the three options you can get them to help you with. And as is reasonably expected, they'll take breaks every now and again and have a little snooze in the field. And it just kept the horrible boss thing came out of me of like, how dare you? sleeping on the job like get back to work. So like I just realized like I shouldn't be I shouldn't be in a position of people managing you know what I mean like it's um. Yeah no like no look the mayor hasn't put this in the legislation I don't actually have to give you mandatory breaks please get up you're on the clock. Yeah you haven't punched out on your time card Harvest Sprites. Yeah, no, I think I had kind of similar with Stardew Valley, which is basically the same the same general principle as harvest moan, but Throughout throughout the time you can complete these objectives and then you eventually get essentially the same sort of we guys they're like little Little kind of spirit. Yeah, I think you can put houses in your farm and then they will come out of the house and harvest the crops in front of them and stuff. So you can put watering systems down so that, you know, you don't have to go and manually do it. But yeah, these wee guys will collect up your crops for you slowly, but certainly not, not as far as I'm aware that they're falling asleep and needing punishing or anything like that. I like to hope. I heard Brandon Sanderson is this author. I think you'd know who he is, right? I'm a big fan of his podcasts and everything, just big fan of Brando. He talks about how his company that they've started called Dragonsteel, he has two options for employees, is they can fulfill their nine to five and just leave when it's done and there's no hard feelings and no punishment. But he has incentives for them where if the company does really well, they get quite generous bonuses on top of their pay. So they have a reason to want the company to do better. But at the same time, if they're just happy to work there and just live their life, then that's fine too. So I like to hope I would be like that and not be the tyrant, like, you're not allowed to have a break right now. Yeah, yeah, there's certainly something to be said when a boss is, there's the implication that no, you will work overtime for no extra pay and you'll take work home or... That's been like that. I've had that with managers in the past where It's almost like the manager doesn't quite get that most of us just see it as a job We're not we're not like super passionate about the company outside of just you know, it's You know, we're here to work and we'll do our best but like You know, we're not gonna be staying up till 9 o'clock at the office Putting in ridiculous overtime But I don't know, I think that maybe is, if you're gonna be a manager in a position of, in a company, excuse me, you have to kind of be one or two things. You have to be really into the company or a bit of a megalomaniac and enjoy bossing people around. And I've experienced kind of both throughout life. I've seen kind of two branches when it comes to management. Yeah, yeah. Not, not great. Yeah. Could be, could be a whole other topic. Well, I think that's basically, that's about 40 minutes there. So we, we did cover a little bit of, uh, we did give a little bit of phobias and phobia, but I think mainly we just kind of talked about, um, a lot of mental health talk in that, in that podcast there. So, you know, men, it's important to talk about it. Uh, no one's gonna. Well. If they do mock you for it, then find new friends. Yeah. But so yeah, thank you for joining me on the podcast, Hamish. Thank you. Anything you'd like to get off your chest before we wrap it up? Well, it's one little, one other little bit of phobia that I have. Please, go ahead. And that's being included in group chats. I cannot. I just, I don't have time for it. And when you check your phone and you've got 40 missed messages and you're like, oh god. Yeah, I don't have time to keep up with it. And I end up, I like, certainly if it's, you know, commonly for comedy gigs, someone will add you to a group chat and it's like, Hey guys, here's the lineup. I'll screenshot that. And I'm like, thanks. Bye. And I leave the group chat again, because I'm like, I don't need to be included. Sorry. I deliberately try and we've had group chats that started getting real like kind of wacky and stuff. And I remember being like, guys, please, like, just, you know, let's, it's almost like you're in. you're in someone's house, you gotta behave yourself like a guest kind of thing. Remember, these go right to people's phones. They might not wanna see 40 notifications. But yeah, no, I understand that. Well, it is tough, isn't it? Especially for an event that you are pretty sure you're not gonna be able to make it to, and you don't wanna just ghost or just leave that little so-and-so left the chat that's saying, that feels really rude to me, but yeah. I think more recently I've become more forward with that. Like if I'm not into it, I'm just like, hey, sorry, no, not into it. And it's like, I'm not pretending that I'm gonna come and they're not turning up. True. Typically my answer, if someone's having an event, I would say maybe. And that's not a yes or a no. It's literally a maybe. A genuine maybe, yeah. Yeah, like I might get to the day and it might be like, having a really shit day, you know, not feeling up to going outside. Or it might be like, I'm sick now, or actually something slightly more important has come up that I need to go to, you know, so I don't want to say no and then turn up and they're like, you said no you dick, or say yes and then they're like, you didn't turn up you dick. So maybe is my go-to. I feel like we need more options for the Facebook event. Like we've got going and interested. They've taken away, can't go. For some reason you can't decline events anymore. I guess people were getting too offended by it or something. Oh, okay. Which is annoying because it is useful to know if someone actually has seen the event. So you almost need like definitely going. You need like a maybe, but then you need like a maybe leaning towards, I will go if it's convenient for me. And then it... a note, a maybe that's leaning towards like, I will cancel at the shortest, you know, at the smallest time of inconvenience. You will message me the day of and I'll be like, oh no, something came up. Yeah, exactly. I feel like it would be helpful to know, you know, maybe is, maybe is good, but a little bit more specific, I can't speak today. Specificity? Yes, thank you. Thank you. That's exactly it. Okay, so on that note, I think we'll wrap it up. I really appreciate you joining me Hamish. Yeah, well, you don't have any plugs, so we'll just kind of wrap it up. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Always a pleasure. And we're back. That was a bit of a fun one there. Bit of a lighthearted sort of two dudes talking kind of podcast. I hope you enjoyed the lesson. I always enjoy having a chat to Hamish. Just a great, great time was had by me. I don't have a ton to add this time. I think I got my life update in one of the previous episodes. One thing I should do is plug some of the shows we've got coming up. We've had a little bit of a change to our kind of regular gigs at Can Do Comedy. We are now doing a show at the Austin Club. These shows are going to be on the first and third Thursday of the month, starting from seven o'clock to eight o'clock. It's just a really tight, short, crispy hour of stand-up comedy. It is a ko-ha or donation entry, so if you are running a little bit skinned at the moment, like I may be at this point, it's a very cheap night. You don't really have to donate. It helps the comics, helps pay for parking, all that sort of thing. But if you just want to come down and have a laugh, take your... hopefully forget about the world for an hour, you're more than welcome to come down and just hang out and enjoy some comedy. Got the second and fourth Wednesday of the month I am doing my pop quiz I think I might have mentioned this in a previous podcast but we are now doing this twice a month now which is great for me because it shows that there is demand for it, the people are keen for it, the venue have some faith in it so I'm very happy to have that upgraded to twice a month. Just check out meepalopolis.com and you can see all of the dates that that's happening and you can book in on the website as well. Last Thursday of the month as always, Spriggan fan Merrivale absolutely love that venue. Wendy the owner is just an absolute gem, like one of the best venue owners we've ever worked with. Super welcoming, really looks after us and actually puts quite a lot of effort into promoting the gig which is pretty rare for New Zealand venue owners. I don't want to throw any shade, it's not their fault, a lot of the time they just don't really know how to market stand up on on Facebook, a lot of them will share the gig like two hours before the show which is just not enough time. The silly thing is though, New Zealand people and especially Christchurch people do leave things pretty late so I could see how that makes sense to them to share it the night of, but realistically you want them to share it like a couple of days before because people can't just like drop everything and come out. Getting off topic but yeah, Spring and Fun Merrivale, absolutely love that room, love all the staff, love Wendy, just support them in any way you can, great place. Come out and watch us tell jokes. Aside from that, I've got quite a few Beats by Bingo gigs. Mostly private stuff, nothing really open to the public. But if you wanna have a Beats by Bingo show at your fundraiser, social club, et cetera, go to www.bitchandbingo.com and you can get all the information there. So that's all from me. Once again, I'm on all the social media platforms except for Twitter, at TaylorRottleComedy, and then on Twitter, at TaylorRottle. Check out www.candrewcomedy.com, we've got a brand spanking new website. I hope you like it and share it with people that have venues and we can come and tell jokes for you. Alright, that's all from me. We'll catch you next time. Appreciate you listening.