34. Rugby w/ Matt Lilley

A wee Wednesday bonus episode for you!

Many weeks ago Matt Lilley and I sat down for him to explain to me the ins and outs of the great kiwi past time Rugby. When we recorded it was right around the time that all the office workers of the world were saying "Up The Wahs" to everything, and by the time I've uploaded it, the All Blacks are about to play South Africa in the finals of the RWC. Oh how time flies. Matt was kind enough to remind me about this podcast, so I decided bugger it, we'll slip it in as a Wednesday bonus episode in case any of you out there were looking to brush up on your Rugby knowledge before the finals!

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Transcript

Good morning Ramblers and welcome to a special bonus episode of Rattle Me This. I am as always your host, Taylor, Colonel Pandas, Rattle. And what is this? If you're a regular listener you'll realize that today is actually Wednesday, not Monday morning. Well, you see what happened my fine-feathered friend is Matt, my guest for this podcast and I recorded this episode many weeks ago before I think I even knew I was going to do this uh... South Island wide tour with David Correos and the subject of today's episode is About the Kiwi pastime the sport known as rugby and what had happened was we recorded it back when the The whole up the wires thing was really taking off because in my mind I was going to release it Pretty much immediately but obviously by the fact that I'm releasing it now that did not happen Other things got in the way the tour happened gigs, podcasts, it's all a big mess. So anyway, here we are, and I am going to release the conversation we had as a little Wednesday bonus episode of the podcast because Matt was so kind as to remind me that the finals of the Rugby World Cup is on this Saturday, the 29th at 8 in the morning, where New Zealand plays against South Africa. So with any luck, I haven't completely missed the boat in rugby interest in this country for a while, and we are going to release this episode. I'm a very unpatriotic New Zealander in that I don't even really know how the game works, I have a very vague understanding of the rules, but I didn't know the difference between Rugby League and Rugby Union before this, that was one of the things that Matt talks about with me. I think we get into it in the start of the episode as to how Matt, what his credentials are and how he knows about all these different aspects of rugby. and then we kind of just chat about it. I think we get into it a little bit about the whole idea of masculinity in New Zealand, but I think we put a pin in that and maybe are going to come back to it in another episode. So for now, happy Wednesday, Ruddle Maniacs. Let's all welcome to the show our expert on rugby for this episode, Matt Lilly, everyone. Hey Matt, welcome to the podcast. Hey Taylor, great to be here. Lovely to have you. Today we're going to be talking about something that I know very little about in true unpatriotic fashion which is rugby. And you, I understand, are quite a learned gentleman in this area. Yes, you could say it is definitely something that has been passed down through generations of my family and I've carried the torch of. being a rugby enthusiast for most of my life through the highs and the lows. And yeah, definitely spread some knowledge on the great game here today. Well, that's good. That is, that's exactly what it needs. So I guess to quickly go, cause I suspect this will be more of a podcast for people like myself who don't necessarily follow it, but you know, we'll kind of fill in some gaps in their knowledge, I suppose. So my first thing, I guess I'll just go through what I understand the rules of rugby are and you can correct me and add things as we go. Is that right? Yep. Cool. So from what I remember from like the couple of games I played as a child, you run at the other team. You're only allowed to throw the ball backwards. And if they tackle you to the ground, they get to have the ball and you have to try and tackle them to the ground. If it goes out. Is that thing where they lift up that dude, like, you know, they'll stand in like a group and someone will throw it and then they lift a guy like seven, eight feet off the ground and he grabs it? Is that when the ball goes out? Yeah, that's called a line out. So yeah, that happens in rugby. Yeah. And then I don't know what causes this, but at one point they all go into like a single unit and crash into each other. And I assume try to get the ball from the center of them, which is called a scrum, right? Yep, that's the scrum. That's clearly one of the best descriptions of a scrum I've heard. What happens, what makes them do a scrum? Like is there any particular event that makes it happen? Well the most common reason for a scrum is usually for a knock on or a forward pass. So that happens if whoever's carrying the ball, you know, drops it and it goes forward. Or if they're passing it and they either accidentally or purposely throw the ball forward, it'll be... the referee will call a scrum and then the team that didn't drop the ball, they'll get the ball to put into the scrum. Oh I see, so it's effectively a kind of reset but a little bit more complicated than just giving the ball to the other team. It's like they can, I'm guessing it's slightly easier to get it if you're the team that puts it into the scrum. Yeah because then, so the halfback is the person that'll put that ball in. And effectively it's, it's just two purposes really. It gets, cause you know, it gets both all the forwards and the forwards are the stronger guys in the team. It gets them all into one area instead of all being spread out across the field. So when the ball comes out, the, you know, the backs have a chance to do something with a bit more space and get out there and do the stuff everybody likes to see, but then it's also a big guys. Yeah. Pretty much. So, uh, and then, but then it's also a big. you know, sort of collision and contest to see who's the biggest, stronger, yeah, the guys, because if you're a lot stronger than the other team, they can put the ball in and you can just push them off it. And you can pull back. So then the other rule that I know about is if you score a try, which is, uh, I guess Americans call it a touchdown, but I learned the hard way that you can't just spike the ball. You have to be touching the ball when it hits the ground. Is that right? Yeah, that's one of the, that's a weird sort of peculiarity with rugby. because American football they just have to cross that line and then yeah they get the touchdown but the rugby you have to yeah ground the ball so that either you put the ball down on the ground on the line or over it and then of course you've got that second line that's behind the post which is called the dead ball line because if it goes that's too far basically it's very precise yeah because you can't just keep running forever so yeah And then the last thing that I know is when you get a try, someone's allowed to kick the ball at the goalpost, and if they get it in the middle, you get an extra two points. Yep. Yeah. That's a lot of conversion. That also happens when you get a penalty, right? What kind of things would cause a penalty in rugby? A penalty, that would tend to be something that's a bit more foul play-ish. So that can, you know, that's ranging really anything from something really bad. like literally punching a guy in the other team. Right, okay. Or it just rides down to just being offside. Because unlike sort of football or soccer, the offside line is just sort of the line from where a previous tackle was, if that makes sense. Oh, I see it changes each time you're playing. Yeah, so if there's a tackle, it then becomes something that's known as a ruck, which is when you see, yeah, when someone gets tackled. And then as we see like two or three people from each team, who is nearby. trying to come in and push each other off the ball. Yeah. And then from there, yeah, basically in line of where that tackle is, is the offside line. Gotcha. The defense has to be behind that until the ball comes out again. So that's- This is an interesting question that I've had then, cause I know they have offside in soccer as well, or football, sorry, Jimmy Small, kill me for calling it soccer. Before- I guess, was the game ever played without an offside rule and it was just chaos? Is that why they had to create an offside rule? I'd imagine yes. Um, I remember I've watched a couple of videos, like black and white videos of rugby from a hundred years ago and it's a lot of it is yeah, just a big massive age of 10 people just in a big huddle, pushing each other back and forth until someone can get the ball out. But yeah, it's, it's definitely been a game that's evolved. a lot over time and even in the last 10, 20 years, like there's been a rule changes and things like that, you know, make it either more physical or more complicated or less physical, you know, less, a lot of things around safety and all that. So, yeah, it's definitely evolved a lot. One of my childhood memories was, they used to refer to something as a spear tackle. What was that? Spear tackle? I think that's actually, that's more of a WWE move, I think, isn't it? Well, that's Aegis Finisher of the WWE. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's pretty much the same thing really. Oh, just a big diving like. Yeah, someone's just come in, just rush somebody from nowhere and just absolutely smashes them. Gotcha. Yeah. So it is the same. The other one, what are they used to call it? Head high tackles or something? Which would be sort of like where people would get them, grab them around the throat or something and kind of drag them to the ground, right? Which I think is probably not good for the player's health. Yeah. Yeah, so it's kind of one of the main rules. When it comes to tackling, almost anything goes as long as it's below sort of the neck area. So anything that slips above the head or neck, that's something that causes a penalty as well. And then usually, yeah, if it's if you contact, especially now, it's kind of one of those rules that brought in the last five, ten years. If you contact somebody in the head, it's automatically a yellow card. And if it seems intentional, it's a red card. Right, right. Yeah. So, that can definitely change the game. The NFL have like, well, from what I've heard anyways, they've been really trying to stop concussions in CTE. But I think the big difference between the way they tackle in Rugby and the way they tackle in NFL, to my understanding in the NFL, they basically just put their head down and fly at them and try to crash into them kind of with the helmet. But I think in Rugby, they at least try to put their head to the side when they tackle someone, right? Yeah, well, I think that comes down to all that padding and NFL because you're just gonna get hurt if you do that without it. And you're gonna have to do it in a safe way. But yeah, thanks to Will Smith and that movie, everybody is a lot more concerned about concussions and health and all that sort of stuff. Will Smith did a rugby movie or a football movie? Yeah, he did a concussion. Concussion movie which was about the whole scandal of the NFL covering up That's pretty cool. Yeah to watch that. Yeah, I guess that's the rules Did I miss anything that you think would be relevant to people that don't know rugby like myself? Yeah, probably just Kicking kicking plays a pretty big part, especially now days and rugby you'll go through parts of a game where it seems like they're just kicking the ball back and forth over 50 meters, but One thing with rugby that's pretty big is, yeah, territory and making sure you're down there into the field. Cause if you're down there into the field, you're closer to their try line, more likely to, you know, something happening and you scoring a lot quicker than them. So when you see them kicking the ball back and forth, that tends to be the game that they're playing there. Just trying to, yeah. The, when you kick the ball, that's the only time you're allowed to send it directly forwards, is that right? Yes, yes. You can only, yeah, you have to pass it backwards unless, yeah, you can. And then if you kick it, does somebody have to catch it or is it like just wherever it lands, people are now running for the ball there? Like, is there any kind of rule? Because if you, if I'm remembering correctly, if you pass it back and nobody catches it, the other team gets the ball? Not quite, because as long as it doesn't go, if the ball hits the ground and if it's gone backwards, the ball's still alive and anybody can... jump on it and the gang carries on and if you kick it and it lands just into an empty part of the field then yeah it becomes a bit of a mad scramble. Yeah, yeah. But also yeah if you kick it out, if you kick it out without bouncing so if you kick it out on the full and you're out you know and you're outside of the 22 meter line so you're further down the field. Yeah. It'll go to a line out but it'll. come all the way back to where you kick it from. So that's quite often why, yeah, if you're, they're kicking it, they're trying to kick it into the field of play, trying to bounce it in an empty space, so then if it can go out, you get a line out where it went out, instead of all the way back. So it's, yeah. I see. So the main topic of the podcast that I wanted to ask you about, and we spoke very briefly about this the other day, is... I suppose we'll get on to the Warriors maybe after this, but I saw a comment online somewhere that said that this commenter really loved the type of rugby that the Warriors were playing. And to my completely uneducated eyes, I can't see how there's any difference in what your strategy is, because to me it looks like you just kind of run forward and the... pass the ball backwards along the line until you get tackled and then you'd sort of try again kind of thing. So what are the different styles of rugby that teams can play? Well, without getting too sort of in the weeds and too specific, with the, with sort of like the Warriors and what tends to happen with sort of New Zealand teams and also sort of Pacific Island teams, in comparison to say... teams that come from, you know, playing Europe and England and all that sort of thing, is they tend to try and run the ball a lot more, tend to try and get the ball out to the wingers, out to the people in the back line that are a bit faster, a bit more sort of flamboyant with the way they play and try and do that. Where, yeah, other teams will tend to kick and then just try and slowly march up the forward field with their bigger players, with their forwards, try and, you know, crash and bash where... Other teams, well yeah, which if you're more of a casual viewer or if you're just, you know, you're wanting something a bit more exciting, can't get quite stale and boring. It's like moving inch by inch where, yeah, other teams, yeah, like the Warriors at the moment, they've definitely got quite a good, quite a few players that play out in the wing. Like they got, oh my god, what's his name, he's the Lesniac, who's probably one of the best wingers in the competition at the moment, scoring a lot of tries. tends to be what most people say when they're playing like a good brand of rugby to watch. And yeah. Interesting. So this might be a good question to bring this up, but I think pretty much every New Zealander of kind of our generation has heard of Jon Alomu. To my memory, he was a pretty big dude. Was he like one of the rugby players who would just run through people to get to the other end? Yeah. So he was, so Jon Alomu, yeah, he'd probably go down as one of the best of all time. And he was He was a winger as well, but yeah, because that's also why he was so good is because wingers tend to be the fastest players on the field because they find themselves on the outside with his, where they basically just got to try and run around people. And John Olome was so good because he was one of the fastest players on the field, but he was also one of the biggest. Oh man. Yeah, yeah. So not only could he get around you, but he could also run straight at you. Yeah, a lot of the times you have got very little chance of stopping that unless you're close to his size too. Yeah, absolutely. And in that case, if he's running at someone bigger, he'll just run around them because he's a lot faster than them. I see. So he was like an insanely good athlete, but also just a kind of like a Brock Lesnar, like big. And then you're like shocked at how quickly he can move. Yeah. That's Brock Lesnar is a good comparison. Yeah. familiar with what he's like and yeah, because there's a famous video, I think it's from the rugby World Cup final, a semi-final in 1995, where we played England and he scored a try where he ran over three people in a row. And then ran over as in like in the way a steamroller runs over someone or like, okay, so he just took them out on the way to the goalpost. Yeah. And then, yeah. I'm trying to think of other sort of like famous rugby players that most Kiwis might like Dan Carter was a kicker wasn't he? Was he like with the kickers, are they also just normal players or does he just wait on the sidelines until he's needed to kick a ball? No, so Dan Carter, he played, his position was first five eight. And that's kind of a position that is pretty comparable to like a quarterback in American football. Okay. That's he's a member of the back line. But he's the first person standing close to the board so he catches the ball and then passes it off to everybody else. Oh I see, so we do have a kind of role like that in rugby. Yeah kind of, and then also on top of that he was the kicker because the person that kicks the goals can be anybody in the team, usually one of the backs because they tend to be the more athletic ones. Yeah. Yeah so he was also, so he would get all the points, he would set up all the tries and Yeah, in terms of yeah, first five eights, he'd probably go down as one of the, he's definitely the best one that the All Blacks have ever had. And then over the last 20 years he'd probably be, yeah, one of the best ones in the world. So yeah. And then also he was great in those underwear commercials. Yeah, this, I think a lot of people remember him from that. Was it Jockey was the brand that he endorsed or something, wasn't it? Yeah, yes. I think I, so I'm from a little town called Dunsando and there's another little town around there called Southbridge. And for a time, That was all anyone from Southbridge ever used to talk about. Dan Carter's from Southbridge and that's, yeah. Like, I don't know if it's still like that anymore, but, uh, yeah, I remember he was, he was a bit like their LeBron and, um, what was the, where's he from? The, um, what is it? Ohio or something? Um, Cleveland, they had the statue of him at the airport. And then when they, when he left, they were devastated, like their economy took a hit or something. Yep. And then he came back and it went up again and then he did it really. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In terms of other notable players like Richie McCaw in my head is kind of like the default All Blacks captain. I guess he's been retired for many years now hasn't he? Yes, I think he retired. Him and Dan Carter retired I think at the same time after 2015. Oh okay so they've been gone for a while. Yeah, but that was also the last time the All Blacks won the World Cup. So pretty relevant. But it's only happened once since then. But yeah. What was McCaw's role or specialty. So he plays, he was an open side flanker. So basically what that means is he was in the forward pack. But he was a flanker, so he was on the flank of the scrum. So he was one of those ones on the edge. So his main position is in defence. He's the first one flying off the scrum trying to make the tackle. And he's trying to get in and he's trying to steal the ball away. when someone else has been tackled and there's been a ruck. And he's basically, basically running around. He was known as just going around on the fence and just being an absolute pest. And just going in and just snatching the ball away when you're least expecting to get it in there. Or just getting on and making a tackle and just, yeah, just, and then just making tackle after tackle after tackle and just being an absolute warthog workhorse. Wow. Are there any other players that are like kind of noteworthy might be interesting to talk about for the casual fan? Well, it could be interesting. One that most people would know would be Sonny Bill Williams. Oh yeah, yeah. I used to watch him box. Yeah, well, yeah. He used to box, he used to do this because he did everything in this. Yeah, because he actually... because, yeah, if you didn't know, there's two types of rugby. There's rugby union and there's rugby league. Oh yeah, good point. Let's get into that. Yeah, because he was one of those... he's one of the few... probably one of the few players that's been able to actually have success playing both. Right. Yeah, because he went over, he started, he came onto the scene as a rugby league player and he was like a child prodigy at 16 playing for the, I think it was the Canterbury Bulldogs in RL in Sydney and then had a massive controversy after about when he was already one of the best players in rugby league when he was like 22. Yeah. Rugby Union over France and then eventually come back to New Zealand and play for the All Blacks. So let's get into the two, what are the differences between Union is the All Blacks, is that the one they play? Yeah, Union, yeah, in terms of teams the Rugby Union is what the All Blacks do, Rugby League that's what the Warriors do, basically the main differences, in Rugby League they don't have a, they have a scrum but it's slightly different. where they don't actually push against each other. It's just the formality where they put the ball in and they take it out. And then also in rugby league, rugby league has a similar rule set to like touch where, where you're running, you're, you're with your team, someone gets tackled. And then there's no, no real rock, basically that person. Then just get straight up, puts the, puts the ball, the ball through their legs. Their teammate picks it up and they'll, and they pass it. And then they'll have six tackles to basically march up the field. Oh, that makes sense. And then usually at the end of that, so before the last tackle on the fifth tackle, usually they'll either kick the ball or if they're close to scoring a try, they'll do something to try and score a try. Gotcha. And then the ball turns over and then it'll be the other team's turn to then go up with six tackles. And it's basically this back and forth sort of game where it's a little bit more fast paced, sort of some people. prefer to watch it because Rugby Union where there's a lot more scrums, it's a bit slower, a bit more stops to start. Unless, and if you're a bit more of a casual viewer, it can be a lot more confusing because there are a few more rules to it. Yeah. And yeah, so for the most part, those are the main differences, but yeah, 90% of the rules are pretty similar, which is why you can get crossover and why it's pretty confusing for everybody. And then so to explain to any overseas listeners or just people that don't follow, the Warriors are, they're almost like, were they kind of almost like a joke team or something? Because in years past, the phrase of like being, you know, someone would refer to themselves like a long suffering Warriors supporter or there's that phrase of, I think it's recently been changed to up the wires, but I remember we used to say, go the Warriors. Like, were they kind of like the underdog team? What is their story? Yeah, well, so the Warriors, so they play in the NRL, which is the National Rugby League competition, which is the Australian Rugby League competition. And so that and they're the only New Zealand based team in the NRL. And with the Rugby League. Yes, the Rugby League is quite, is it? Yeah, even though there's only one proper professional team in New Zealand, it is quite a big sport. And so, yeah. Yeah, they get the entire fan base from all over the country and even the expats living in Australia, they all support Warriors. So they're very, you know, in terms of the other teams they play against, they have a very big fan base. That makes so much sense. Yeah, and they do suck. So accept this year. So what has changed about them this year? Because people seem to be really high on them. You said they were like third on the table or something like have they done anything in particular to change? I think they got a new coach this year. They, their coach from memory came over, I think he was one of the assistant coaches at the Kenrith Panthers, who are a team based in Sydney, have been probably one of the best teams in the last five, 10 years. So, I hope that they got a new coach. And also, yeah. And they had, they like everybody. They had a rough, they had a rough deal over the last couple of years, being with COVID and all the restrictions and stuff, being the only New Zealand based team. They'd spend most of the last two and a half years playing in Australia with no fans. And basically travelling and having no home games essentially. So this year's been their first full year since then to be able to actually play in front of their home crowd and their home fans and all of that. So that's made a difference. But I think it's more just how things go with most professional sports. They've signed a few good players, young players are getting better. just overall this year seem to have figured it out so far. That's good. I guess I hope they keep doing well to the future. I was at dinner the other day and I saw, I can't remember, they were playing someone else. And yeah, just like the whole mythos of the Warriors, I didn't really know. I think that was kind of what. you know, inspired me to kind of talk about this on a podcast. And I figured there'll be, there'll be some Kiwi comics out there that are, that are into it. And then, yeah, you reached out. And then I remembered I'd seen you do a set talking about rugby, like not three weeks before or something. So yeah, it worked out quite good. I think we've basically covered everything that I sort of wanted to cover, but we've got a little bit of time left. So I guess we could talk about kind of your experiences with rugby and stuff. Like you obviously played as a young lad. Are you from Canterbury? Yes. I'm from Christchurch, I'm from Canterbury and yeah, I played, I started playing rugby when I was four years old, so far too young. What was the recommended age? Usually six or seven. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, I was always, but I was tagging along with my older brother and I was basically running onto the field anyway and trying to steal the ball so they just played anyway. And then yeah, just typical sort of, yeah, just that's all I would do. being a big boy as you say, like yourself. Yeah, I suppose we should interject there. Both Matt and I are considerably large gentlemen. You're a what, 6'4 or something you said, right? Yeah, something like that. That was what was on the Tinder profile. Anyway. Like in wrestling, your build weight is always like two inches taller and 20 pounds heavier than you actually are. Pretty much. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, because of that, people would always, you know, Enjoy, you know, I felt like I was able to play better than the average person just purely based on that on its own Yeah, and yeah went to went to one of those high schools that we don't have to name that They care more about the rugby than they do about the schooling. So Yeah, literally would be would be it was one of the weirdest things looking back in my high school experiences There'd be times just walking down the halls between class where? somebody would just yell out just just rugby and it would just be an echo chant of everybody else just yelling rugby just the singular word rugby just the singular word rugby and then so yeah and then so I did that and yeah the body and before I was 18 you what now you bashed it in bashed it in brutal you know what um bruised and broken everything before I was 18 knee injuries and stuff like that knee injuries, shoulder injuries, back injuries, but you know, it's all for the love of the game. So yeah, that's, um, I feel like people probably think this about us doing standup comedy is like they wonder why we'd put ourselves through it. Like I had this, I've had coworkers in the past who, you know, they would come into work on Monday limping after having played a weekend warrior, is that what it's called? When, um, you know, just 40 at the park or whatever. And, um, I'd always think to myself, geez, why would you do that to yourself? Um, you know, and you're not even getting paid for it, but like, it's that thing, isn't it? People just get into it and to them, the, the joy of playing the game, I guess is worth any of the injuries, right? Yeah, I suppose it's, it's also just that blowing off steam. Some people just need that outlet where they're just crashing and bashing into other people. Yeah, I suppose. I suppose that's a probably part of a bigger discussion about, uh, Kiwi men are not particularly physical with each other in daily life, right? But like, in what I'd consider a pretty homophobic country, the whole cricket hitting each other on the butt thing is kind of like, okay, that's interesting. Yeah. That's, yeah. Yeah. I do wonder if rugby is a kind of like, you get that kind of rough housing with your friends and which I... I've heard is a thing that humans need is kind of, you know, physical, uh, I don't say physical contact, but you know what I mean? Like the kind of play, play fighting thing that you do when you're a little kid with your dad or whatever. Well, that's, yeah, that's rugby culture to a T really, because basically, yeah, growing up in rugby, it's all just that, you know, rough housing with boys and that sort of thing. And then when you become, you know, you start playing as an adult. other adults it's the exact same but then alcohol gets introduced so it's an absolute mess. It's after the game presumably. Yes, yes and there's something like yeah there's something about rugby players that when you get them away from the field and you give them some alcohol in my experience they just love taking their clothes off. They love taking their clothes off. Yeah that's how every rugby social gathering ended. as I remember somebody or multiple people getting their clothes off and going outside to do something. So, we'll leave it at that. Well, yeah, we'll change the topic of that. We don't need to go into that. But yeah, just, you know, like, but yeah, I grew up in a rugby family. So that sort of stuff would happen a lot. Like I remember my old man, he used to be a referee after he stopped playing. And that was one time where he was the referee. for one of my games. And this was after the game. Well, it was probably about 15 or 16 and we're in the showers and the changing rooms. And, you know, big old communal shower. Yeah, yeah. Those like cinder block wall, like rugby club rooms. Yeah, another one. Yeah. And then, and yeah, we're a team of 15, 16 year olds all sharing in our underwear still on because you know, we're not gonna, eye line and all that. And then, And then in comes my dad who just refereed the game and you know, he's nearly 50, no self-confidence issues, comes in completely naked and then decides to stand right next to me on the end of the line and give me a play-by-play rundown on how he thought my game went. And then after about 30 seconds, I turned back and most of my teammates have all left and left me there standing next to him. So. I wouldn't think that's a generational thing or a culture thing. Cause when I was, I lived in Japan for a few years and I noticed that people were like super comfortable with nudity and the gym, uh, locker rooms and stuff like that. It was, um, and I was like, I don't know if that was, you know, the generational repression or whatever, but I was always like, I've been like, whoa, these are just random guys that I don't know what's going on here. And, uh, but yeah, you always see the old boys walk in. Absolutely zero shame. Like not even a towel on, just like, yep, all good. So yeah, it's, this almost could be a podcast for another day about the idea of, the idea of the sort of Kiwi male rest, and what was the word I'm thinking of, repression. But then how it comes out and, you know, you have those friends who get drunk and that's the only time you ever see them express I was just, I was, yeah. Well, it's like I have this friend who I've only been friends with for about a year and a half now is, is a workmate and he's Spanish. He just, he moved over a couple of years from Spain. And so he's very, you know, yeah. European people are, you know, they're very, you know, they're like the hug. It's a kiss on the cheek. Yeah. Very comfortable with physical contact. Yeah. Very comfortable with physical contact. He used to, I'd known him for two days and he came up to me to. to hug me to say goodbye when he was leaving work. Yeah. And I nearly swung on him basically. And yeah, it took me about three months of being friends with this guy to be able to, be like, okay, you can hug me now. And yeah, stuff is aboard. So, yeah. It's bizarre, isn't it? Maybe we'll have to do something, a podcast about that in the future then. We're basically coming up on a 40 minutes or whatever it is now. So yeah, just want to say thanks for joining me. It's been, I learnt a lot. I now can say I know the difference between rugby league and rugby union. So that's one of those little things for me. Anything you want to, I guess you'll get your, I'll get your comedian page details coming up. But yeah, let's try and bring you back and talk about some other stuff in the future. Yeah, sounds good. Had a great time. Thanks for having me, Taylor. Thank you very much. And we are back. I hope you found that as informative and as interesting as I did. I really enjoyed chatting to Matt about that. If you feel like checking out more of what Matt's been up to in the stand-up comedy sense, you can find him on Facebook. His comedian page is MattLilyComedian. L-I-L-L-E-Y, excuse me. And then if you follow him on Instagram, you can see his adventures where he posts a lot of fridges that he seems to be encountering in the wild a lot. Once again, Matt... Lilliliy9 on Instagram. I'll have links to those in the show notes. So thanks again to Matt for joining us. I apologize about the delay. Life got away on me a little bit there, but hopefully you've enjoyed that and you've learned a little bit about rugby just before tuning into the grand finals of the Rugby World Cup this 28th, whenever it was. I don't know if you can tell, but I'm putting this together rather hastily. Sorry, the 29th of October. at 8am check out the Rugby World Cup New Zealand vs South Africa. As always I'm on all the social media platforms at TaylorOdellComedy, check out Kando Comedy to see what gigs I've got coming up. And by the time this releases I have 3 shows left in the tour with David Carrillos. Thursday night Sprig and Fern Miraval unfortunately sold out, but then on Friday night we're heading up to Motuaka to play The Imaginarium, really excited about that. Still heaps of tickets left for that so get in or recommend people to come and check us out if you are in that part of the world and then Saturday night we are at Studio One for two shows at Nelson. The first show is almost sold out and there's still heaps of tickets in the second show so definitely nudge people along if you know them in that part of the world. Thanks again for listening we will be back next Monday to your regularly scheduled programming and I look forward to Rudler over and out.